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Yellowcar
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bullet Topic: Dead Pedal
    Posted: 14 January 2004 at 12:47am

I finally made a Dead Pedal for my 510.

I recently put one in my brothers ITS RX7 (much nicer under very hard braking now) so it seemed like a good idea to make one for my 510 while I was welding up my floors.

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layinga521
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 3:10am
OK, I'm intrigued! Whats a Dead Pedal, and what does it do to make hard braking better?
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Bleach
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 9:35am

Its just the foot rest on the left side that doesn't move. Z-cars have them from the factory. You probalby made yours from aluminum or some other shiny material.

how does that make hard braking better?

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lowpsi
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 2:05pm

yea kinda lost on the braking too

 

but i have a big dead petal... sorda

my wheel tubs for the body drop is a nice foot rest.....

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Yellowcar
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 5:25pm

It is a place to put your left foot.

The best placement seems to be at the same level your as right foot when you are on the brakes.

When you are braking very hard it is nice to be able to use your left foot to keep yourself in your seat so you are not completely hanging from your belts and have better control.

Made mine from 16Ga steel (weld in) Made My brothers from aluminum (bolt in)

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GTZilla
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 5:31pm

Originally posted by Yellowcar

When you are braking very hard it is nice to be able to use your left foot to keep yourself in your seat so you are not completely hanging from your belts and have better control.

Unless of course you are a left foot braker.

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Bleach
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 5:34pm
Ya, Randy's race car is an auto. right foot on the gas, left foot on the brake!
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GTZilla
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 6:07pm
Na, I'm a right foot braker. I tried left foot braking a couple of times, but just never could get the feel. Lot's of people that come up through the Karting ranks as kids and move into big cars left foot brake. So do some formula car drivers, because they can't get their right foot over to the brake pedal, because of the steering column. Mater of fact I had to put a dead pedal in the car, because the chap that had it before me was shorter, and he just used the two intrusion bars as a dead pedal. That didn't work for my big a$$ feet.
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tdaaj
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bullet Posted: 14 January 2004 at 9:25pm
i'm a right foot breaker and a left foot gasser lol.
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Yellowcar
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bullet Posted: 15 January 2004 at 6:32pm

As long as we are taking about left foot braking here is an article on the subject http://vista.pca.org/rmr/Training/leftFootBraking.htm 

Also here is a quote from an F1 tech page on pedals etc

"The pedals of an F1 car are usually designed specifically for each driver. Some like large brake pedals and small accelerators, others have small lips on the side of the pedals so each foot is held in position on the pedal. Most drivers use left foot braking and so have just two pedals, while those that use their right foot to brake will have small foot rest for their left foot to help support themselves under braking."

It is interesting to note that in F1 left foot brakers use more fuel than right foot brakers

 

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bullet Posted: 15 January 2004 at 9:44pm

All the F1 guys left foot brake. They don't have a clutch pedal anymore, it's all electroniclly controled. Heck they don't even shift, it's pre programmed. In fact a couple of years ago one manufacture (IIRC Mclaren) devoloped a car with yaw sensors and accellerometers that would drive itself around that track, lap after lap, doing lap times with in a few hundreds of second each time. FIA decided it was time to give some of the control back to the drivers so they did away with much of the active suspension and two way telemtry that was making the drivers passengers. But they still allow a litenay of computer controlled devices on the cars.

Ferrari's F1 engines are capable of 18,000 RPM's! Anyone care to guess how many times the connecting rod goes from a dead stop at the bottom to a dead stop at the top of it's stroke each minute at 18,000? Try like 2.1 million times a minute! And there are ten of those.

And I worry when my truck is turning 3500 RPM on the freeway

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datsunaholic
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bullet Posted: 15 January 2004 at 10:20pm
The company I work for wrote the software that ran the McLaren F1 car- used to be (may still be) a prominent sponsor on the car primarily sponsored by "West".
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Yellowcar
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 1:25pm

Many but not all drivers left foot brake. Since there tends to be a fuel penalty some drivers choose to right foot brake and some just aren’t comfortable doing it. Automatic shifting is not allowed.

 

Some engine stats:

Output over 900 bhp.

Maximum engine speed is 19,200 rpm. (BMW)

Idle speed is 4,000 rpm. (some idle higher ~9,000 That’s redline for NASCAR)

The engine weighs less than 200 LBS

Maximum piston acceleration is 10,000g.

Piston speed peaks at 131feet per second and averages 82 feet per second.

The 130R turn at Suzuka with a load of 4g poses the greatest challenge to the oil system.

At Monaco the transmission and engine have to withstand an average 3,100 gear changes. (Automatic shifting is banned) and one engine must last the entire weekend

 

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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 1:45pm
Mmmm... there is no manual shifting in F1. It's all computer controlled. they do have an over ride, but the shifting is pre-programmed. No it's not like a automatic in your everyday car, but the the transimissons are shifted pneumatically, and run off the same system that opens and closes the valves. Valve springs can't react fast enough at over about 12,000 rpm. All modern F1 race car have the steering column between the brake and the accelerator pedal, making right foot braking impossible. They can not move their foot over past the steering column. Watch some in-car footage, the drivers fingers never once move from the steering wheel to shift. They no longer use the paddles, unless there is a problem, and then only to get back to the garage to park it. Since the cars are on the brakes less than 10% of the time, I don't see how there could be much, if any fuel penalty.
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 1:58pm

Here are the FIA rules regarding F1 transmissions. As you can see the only type of tranmission not allowed is a CVT.

ARTICLE 9 : TRANSMISSION SYSTEM
9.1 Transmission types :

No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.

9.2 Clutch control :

All cars must be fitted with a means of disengaging the clutch for a minimum of fifteen minutes in the event of the car coming to rest with the engine stopped. This system must be in working order throughout the Event even if the main hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical systems on the car have failed. In order that the driver or a marshal may activate the system in less than five seconds, the switch or button which operates it must : 
face upwards and be positioned on the survival cell no more than 150mm from the car centre line ;

- be designed in order that a marshal is unable to accidentally re-engage the clutch ;
- be less than 150mm from the front of the cockpit opening ;
- be marked with a letter "N" in red inside a white circle of at least 50mm diameter with a red edge.

9.3 Gear ratios :
9.3.1
The minimum number of forward gear ratios is 4 and the maximum is 7.

9.3.2 Continuously variable transmission systems are not permitted.

9.4 Reverse gear :

All cars must have a reverse gear operable any time during the Event by the driver when the engine is running.

9.5 Torque transfer systems :

Any system or device the design of which is capable of transferring or diverting torque from a slower to a faster rotating wheel is not permitted.

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Yellowcar
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 3:42pm

Rubens Barrichello is at least one driver that does not left foot brake although he has tried doing it to see if he is faster. (Michael is a left foot braker as are many of the drivers that came from karting where the steering column prevents right foot braking)

 

Here is at least one reference to this

http://www.thescuderia.net/rubraceengine.shtml

 

And a quote:

“Asked what are the differences between him and his team-mate, Rubens replied: “The main difference is that I brake with the right foot and he uses the left. We have a different driving style – Michael has a higher entry speed and I am faster on the exit.”

The fuel consumption difference is slight (but so is everything in F1) and is caused by the driver being on both the accelerator and the brake at the same time on occasion.

 

Per the FIA 2004 rules fully automatic gear changes are not allowed

http://www.fia.com/PRESSE/F1-A/2003/15-01-2003-Note.pdf

 

Even when it was allowed not all drivers used the full auto feature some chose to only use auto downshift some chose both and at least one driver (Jacques Villeneuve) used neither

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datsunaholic
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 4:43pm
Were all those rules adopted? That PDF was the post-2003 suggestion of the governing body, but the owners have to agree to them unanimously.

Though I do recall the telemetry system was pulled- IIRC that's why I don't think my company sponsors McLaren anymore.
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 5:07pm

No those were not adopted. They only adopted the single engine for the weekend and the reduction of downforce by limiting the front wing area and the using only a two plane rear wing. They are still using the same gearboxes, traction control, etc. This all goes back to the Concorde agreement, and none of the manufactures wanted to throw out the electronics, at least for this year. There was also some testing regs that changed.

They don't have two way telemtry, that was gone last year. The engineers can't make adjustments to the car from the pits, but they can tell the drivers to make adjustments.

I do remember something about Rubinno right foot braking, but that was several years ago, and I beleive (though not 100% sure) that the new car in '03 he had to go to left foot braking. But he's a pretty small guy, and they may have made something for the brake, so he could right foot brake. But with traction control, I still don't see how you would save any gas. They just stand on the throttle coming out of the corner (for the most part) and you can hear the traction control in action.

Yeah, that seems to be working for old Jaques. What has it been, four or five years since his last podium finish?
And when he does shift, he just pulled the paddle, and the system did all the work. Not like CART, where they still run a sequential manual shifter. Which BTW I can run in SCCA GT class with a 50 LBS penalty.

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Yellowcar
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 5:30pm
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Yellowcar
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bullet Posted: 16 January 2004 at 6:58pm

You are right that manual shifting in F1 is only kind of manual (all they have to do is pull the paddle)

Panis will be right foot braking this year in the Toyota The TF104 is designed to allow this.

Rubens had to switch to left foot braking for a little while when he first went to ferrari but had the car modified to allow right foot braking shortly after arriving in 99. There are many references to Rubens right foot braking after that.

I'll look through the pictures I took at the Ferrari factory to see if I have any of the footwell of his car

I heard about the fuel consumption issue in an interview with rubens last year

As far as the rules go I am not aware of any changes since they new rules were agreed to on April 29th and see several references to them in current interviews

Jensen Button interview this week

On electronic driver aids…

“As a driver I would rather drive without traction control but you can’t police it. It’s difficult because the technology is so phenomenal.

“It’s good that we have got rid of automatic gears because it makes it all the more exciting for us. It means the drivers are more involved and you enjoy it more if you have more input. The ban on launch control should help us too as Renault were very good at their starts and now it will be more of a level playing field.”

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